Whoever heard of a bus passenger who wouldn’t move so someone in a wheelchair could rid the bus? Evidently, just about anyone who uses a wheelchair and rides the bus in El Paso.
The El Paso City Council had to address that problem today with a new ordinance that no one thought should have been necessary but all agreed is needed to address the hard-to-believe problem.
The ordinance makes it a city misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $500 for an able-bodied person to refuse:
-- to move from one of two seats at the front of each bus that folds up to make room for a wheelchair if the space is needed by disabled or elderly passenger
-- to give up a seat for a passenger who is disabled or over 65 years old.
The unanimous passage of the ordinance was celebrated with applause and cheers by about a dozen people in wheelchairs who attended the meeting to speak or just make their presence known.
Ray Gilbert, a self-described government watchdog, said Sun Metro has another problem: its policy of only acknowledging elderly or disabled passengers if they have an official Sun Metro pass, which they have to go to Sun Metro headquarters in person to get.
“You shouldn’t require (the disabled) and elderly to go to Sun Metro Downtown,” Gilbert said, suggesting that the passes be available by mail or at other locations around the city.
Naomi Tovar, who regularly rides city buses, recalled one day when the seats on a bus she needed to take were nearly full and the driver refused to let her board because the sitting in the wheelchair spaces refused to move to another seat or stand up so she could board the bus.
So, she had to wait for the next one.
“This is not the first time this happened,” she said. “This is the second or third.”
Lori Vugteeveen said she had encountered the same problem repeatedly and that the bus drivers have told her they could not force the passengers to relinquish their places for a wheelchair.
“The problem is we can’t sit anywhere else,” she said. “If we have to wait for the next bus, it’s 50 or 60 minutes or 1-1/2 hours.”
Other passengers complained that some drivers don't let them board simply because they don't want to take the time lower the lift and then to tie down the passenger's wheelchair so it doesn't roll or tip when the bus turns or stops.
The possibility of sitting passengers having to stand up prompted city Rep. Rachel Quintana to ask, “Is it OK for people to stand on the bus?”
Mayor John Cook assured her it is.
City Manager Joyce Wilson said the problem is that bus drivers don’t have the authority to force someone to move from the seat they are occupying so an elderly person can sit down or so a passenger confined to a wheelchair can have the place.
Only two wheelchair spaces are available on buses.
Once the ordinance takes effect, she said, a bus driver can call the police and hold the bus until an officer arrives to issue a citation to the unmoving passenger.
Wilson said the new measure will be enforced once signs are posted on buses informing passengers of the new rules. That should only take several days.
City Rep. Beto O’Rourke, who has made a personal resolution to only speak at City Council meetings when it involves a matter in his district or when he has something worthwhile to say, finally had to say something.
“If you don’t know to give up your seat for someone who’s disabled or elderly, you’re an idiot and no amount of signage will help," O'Rourke said.
Cook read an email from someone saying the Americans with Disabilities Act prohibits recognizing people as disabled only if they possess an ID card saying they are and says people should be treated as disabled if they are perceived to be so.
With that, the council adopted the ordinance unanimously with amendments removing language recognizing people as elderly or disabled only if they possess a Sun Metro Senior/Disabled/LIFT picture identification card.
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To reach David Crowder, call dcrowder@epmediagroup.com or call (915) 351-0605

















Helen Marshall
November 18, 2008
Applause for the initiative concerning wheelchair passengers...As I get ready to turn 65, I only wish that being 65 did not carry the presumption of feebleness...
Suzanne Fabian
November 18, 2008
I was that "someone" who emailed all the reps and my note was thankfully read by the mayor as I saw a disaster pending if they allowed that ordinance to pass without ammending it to follow ADA guidelines. And kudos to Ray Gilbert, too, for "getting it". I was overwhelmed that Ms. Shang worked on this issue so fast, along with Sun Metro and City Council, as Richard Sheldon and I brought this issue up only a couple months ago after Richard was denied a ride yet again and I was, too, as his attendant. Many people in El Paso did not really believe that we could set this as policy, I spoke with able-bodied riders that were against it as they saw it as the elderly/disabled trying to get special treatment and even advocate groups were reluctant to reach so far. I look at it this way- when you pay a fare to gain access to a bus you are guaranteed a "space", not necessarily a seat, as long as you conduct yourself in a civilized manner and follow transit policy while riding that bus. ADA guidelines make it quite clear and this has been on the books for many years- elderly and disabled are allowed the same rights as able-bodied, though certain accomodations must be made to allow them equal access. Able-bodied bus riders do NOT have more rights than the elderly/disabled because they can push their way onto a bus, and the same goes for the elderly/disabled riders- they do not have more rights than able-bodied riders just because the smart and good bus drivers may let them on the bus first. That is usually done for good reason- if you let a wheelchair-bound rider on first you are giving everyone who rides the bus a break- would you rather have a wheelchair run over your toes because you just had to get on the bus first? Plus it's easier for the driver to secure them in the priority seating with fewer bodies to maneuver around. Me, I don't need a law to tell me what is common sense to respect my elders and disabled, when in fact these are my brothers and my sisters- and a little more kindness and patience will go a long way. Thanks to ALL who worked so hard on this issue and didn't give up, and thanks to our city officials who deserve a round of applause for really getting it right this time!
MaryP
November 19, 2008
I can't believe we have to actually pass an ordinance demanding that the public remember their manners. If a citation is issued to a Mexican National riding the bus - will they pay it? Where will the enforcement come from when they don't pay it?
maryp
November 19, 2008
Rachel Quintana asked, "Is it OK to stand on a bus?"
Seriously?
What's the saying? There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
Suzanne Fabian
November 19, 2008
MaryP- I think the fine is meant to be more of a deterrant- collecting on it will of course have it's own challenges- but the main point here is that the drivers will be able to actually enforce the priority seating policy and an able-bodied rider who refuses to move will be kicked off the bus and the elderly/disabled rider will not end up losing a ride and have to wait for another bus.
Helen Marshall
November 19, 2008
What about pregnant women? Most pubic transport that I've ever used had spaces with priority for pregnant women, a parent with a small child, etc. In all my years riding in Washington, DC, and overseas I NEVER saw a disabled or elderly person not offered a seat. Is this really a major problem in El Paso, which is supposed to be a much friendlier city than other places (and which generally seems to be).
As for elderly. I HOPE that I do not look 65. If I get on the bus and stand, are all the passengers who do not offer me a seat going to be fined? Do I have to prove I am 65 if I ask someone to yield a seat? Can anyone on council tell me how this will be enforced?
CNEC
November 19, 2008
The sad thing is none of this should be necessary - not Ordinances, not signs, etc. It is called courtesy. Do I think someone in a wheelchair should be allowed to board and someone that was in front of them in line be put off the bus and made to wait for the next bus to make room for the handicapped person? No, that is unfair. But, if it is a matter of moving to another seat or standing up and still riding the bus, then just do it. Unfortunately, bad manners are rampant. I used to have to stand and wait in my OB/GYN's office when I was 8 and 9 months pregnant because the chairs were all occupied by the husbands, children, mothers, aunts, cousins, etc. of other women. Very rarely would someone offer me a seat. What has happened to common decency?
Marty
November 19, 2008
What is able bodied? Your medical condition is PRIVATE and having to explain to the bus driver WHY you have to sit down, even though you "Look" able bodied, is a violation of civil rights and probably other things too.
Not everyone has a condition that is noticeable from the outside.
Not all illnesses can be seen from the outside, and having to explain your medical condition to a bus driver and then he will probably tell everyone on the bus what your condition is, so you can sit down.
The hospital requires a COURT ORDER to release medical records so having to give over that information to a "bus driver" is clearly against the law.
Get the lawyers ready.
Some people are just plain tired and exhausted from working or being in the sun or have high blood pressure. You make these people STAND and they fall over, getting themselves or others hurt and the city might as well just give me a blank check.
Heat, exhaustion and high blood pressure will cause fainting and if continued.... DEATH.
Maybe the city should ASK some doctors if all illnesses are apparent from the outside?
If there are empty seats, and you pay for the bus service, you better get a seat if one is available.
If someone NEW gets on the bus, and there are no empty seats, blame the bus driver,
regardless if the person is handicapped, old or not. The bus is too full.
New passengers must wait for the next bus.
Marty
November 19, 2008
If you give ONE person a ticket for not getting up and standing then you better be ready to give ALL passengers a ticket for not ALSO giving up their seats. You single out ONE person and make them stand, or move, and you might as well ask ROSA PARKS to sit in the back of the bus.
Dr. Fine
November 19, 2008
Rosa Parks, I see you look able bodied, so would you
please sit in the back of the bus.
The El Paso City Council just reversed all your civil rights.
Steph
November 19, 2008
Haha I cannot believe Rachel Quintana asked that question. She sits on the mass transit board and yet has never herself taken the bus?! I ride the bus all the time to and from work, and I was happy to see (during a hot summer day when it would seem inconceivable to wait an 1hr for a bus) city Rep. Beto O'Rourke board a city bus. Never thought i'd ever see that happen. Kudos to those reps who are doing a great job and well, to those that are not, we need to vote them out.
Diane
November 20, 2008
When you board the El Paso bus please bring your proof of age and your medical records. The bus driver can then make name tags for everyone with their age in LARGE NUMBERS and seat them by age. As each new person gets on the bus, the bus driver will make a name tag for that person and move everyone around acording to age. The bus trip will take 6 hours as at each stop the police have to be called and everyone will be late for work, jury duty and doctor appointments. It will become a new game called: The El Paso Bus Musical Chairs. It will be fun.
I might look 65 to some people, but to have the bus driver tell me I look like I am 65, he will get slapped.
Why, there is a younger looking black women sitting on the bus, I'll just ask the driver to make her give me her seat, and she can stand or ride in the back of the bus.
Lots of fun.
Suzanne Fabian
November 21, 2008
Please feel free to read the ADA rules and guidelines online on the ADA site, the FTA has links, Abbott's site etc... No one is asking for proof of age, no one is asking the nature of your disability- but are allowed to ask if you are disabled- that's not against anyone's civil rights.
That is why I emailed the reps before city council voted on this ordinance as it was first written because they were going to mistakenly let Sun Metro elderly/disabled cardholders to have priority (!) over non-cardholders that may be elderly or disabled with priority seating.
Bringing race into this issue is just getting out of hand and ridiculous.
I was brought up to treat people with respect. So I guess some people will say I'm playing favorites when it comes to the elderly and disabled. Oh well... I'm guilty and will go so far as to say I won't change.
The day this ordinance passed I was on the bus (as usual) and we had 1 wheelchair occupying one side of priority seats and the other side of priority seating was occupied by a woman with a cane and we rolled up to a bus stop and a person in a wheelchair was waiting to get on but the driver informed her that all the priority seating was occupied by people that needed it. And you know what?
The lady in the wheelchair wanting to board understood. I associate with alot of people who are disabled in various ways and the majority of them are overly-accommodating and don't want to be a bother or receive special treatment- all they want is a fair shake. It makes me sad that at times our elderly and disabled are treated as a nuisance or something less than human that we have to put up with and I thank God and my Mother for showing me how to treat my brother and fellowman.
Am I perfect? NO! And there will always be little "what ifs" We have choices. We can complain and do nothing or bring frivolous lawsuits, or we can do what we can to make the world a little easier. I work hard everyday,7 days a week, and suffer from ailments, too, but that doesn't change my character. I will give up my seat any day for someone that may need it.
Ray
November 22, 2008
Why would anyone in a wheel chair on a bus want to get out of the wheelchair when the busses are or should be equipped to havdle wheelchair passengers. Could it be that the person is phoney and is only using the wheel chair as an excuse?