A Conversation with Jaime O. Perez, Part II

The following interview was conducted on Friday, February 13, 2004. This interview is the second in a two-part series.

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NPT: About two weeks ago, the City Clerk certified the petition against Escobar. At the point, everything appeared on-line for the recall election, right?

PEREZ: Everything was fine. I, in fact, said to the press that my job is done; the petition is certified; the election is going to move forward. Under state law, a municipality cannot refuse to call a recall election. And I said, "I'm out of the picture now and now it'll be up to the people of District 6 either to keep him or oust him, and/or to select a replacement." But very much my role, I thought, at that point was done.

NPT: And then, what happened?

PEREZ: Then, they called a Legislative Review Committee for discussion and action on the recall petition, after the Tuesday where they were supposed to have decided to set the election. And I was told, by some people at city hall, that the decision was made that they were going to kill it after the fact. And I objected strenuously to that and said that was a violation of the rules. First of all, I had a series of protests in writing about the unlawful way that they had rejected the first petition. Now, they were certifying it; and now they were going through the process of trying to decertify it - and I felt that was a very strong violation of the rules.

And so they called a Legislative hearing for Wednesday and so, at that point, I knew they were going to try and kill it - or kill it, actually.

NPT: If your role has been one of "technical assistance," why your continued concern with the recall effort?

PEREZ: I said that my only precondition for participation was that there would be follow-through. If someone stands up to the public and says, "I'm going to do this and I want your signature." The minute the first citizen signs a petition, that person (who is collecting signatures) is now obligated to follow through on that process. And, you know, to set the precedent that people can go out there and get 1,000 signatures or 1,400 signatures - as in our case - and then say, "Well, never mind." That just doesn't work. Credibility is at stake for everyone concerned and then there's also a credibility issue among citizens who say, "All of this is just game playing, because none of it is real."

So, my precondition with participation was that they should follow through. At the point where I saw clearly that they were going to unlawfully try to decertify, then I had to get back into (the process) to make sure they set that election.

NPT: On Tuesday, there are two City Council agenda items relating to the recall. The first item, placed on the agenda by Robert Barragan, requests that the recall petition be withdrawn. The second item orders the recall election. Will you speak to either one of those issues on Tuesday? [agenda]

PEREZ: I will be present. And I will be presenting testimony on both of those items.

NPT: Why has Barragan withdrawn his support of the recall?

PEREZ: According to David Crowder of the El Paso Times, Mr. Barragan told him that he met with Paul Escobar at 9 a.m., the day that we were supposed to turn in the petition - the second petition - and he had a change of heart. What happened at that meeting, why he had a change of heart, I don't know. At 11 a.m., which is the time we had set to submit the petition, he called me at 11:15 a.m. - told me he was coughing up blood in Juárez and that he would not be able to make it. I said, "OK." I mean, you've got to take care of yourself, whatever the physical ailment is. And that's part of the record at the Legislative Review. That's what I testified. He agrees, that's what he told me. And so, as far as I knew, he was out of the picture.

Now, at that point, I made the decision that we needed to follow through. And that's my mantra. And so, we followed through and we submitted the petition at 3 p.m. that day.

NPT: But, now he's moving forward to withdraw that petition.

PEREZ: What is now occurring is that he's arguing, with the support of the administration - specifically Representative Cushing and Representative Escobar - that he has standing to withdraw it. And of course, we're arguing that he does not, because on January 13 he signed a document, an affidavit, in which he empowered me as the new spokesman to follow through with the petition. He was feeling very stressed that he could not handle what he had claimed at that time was the harassment of Paul Escobar, and the attempts to bribe him. And so I told him not to worry - to go ahead and let's transfer the authority to me. That way, whatever happens, he wouldn't have to worry about it. So, we agreed on January 13 and that affidavit is part of the documentation that I submitted to all of the media for the legislative review.

NPT: The next step will be determined at this week's City Council meeting?

PEREZ: Right. Tuesday they will make whatever decision they're going to make.

NPT: What happens if the Council does not follow through with the recall?

PEREZ: If they do not follow through, then we initiate a recall of (Mayor Joe) Wardy, for the unlawful decertification of a bona fide petition [article].

NPT: Are you saying the Wardy recall is contingent on Council's actions Tuesday?

PEREZ: No. That's a promise - that if they decertify (the petition) the Wardy recall will proceed. If it (the recall) goes through, it depends on what is done with the Barragan testimony. Because, what they're trying to do is to cast doubt on the petition process - essentially, not allow any others to move forward on some sort of - I don't know - I don't quite understand the grounds yet. They're making an argument that the petition process should not be pursued. And also, because they want to use Mr. Barragan to discredit the process of Citizens for Responsive Government. And I've made it clear, neither that, nor the refusal to call an election, will be acceptable to me. And any number of other things can occur.

In the meantime, that doesn't even address the policy issues. Because I have serious policy issues and differences with this administration. So, the Wardy recall will proceed on a number of avenues, or for a number of reasons - depending on what happens in the next few days. The only reason that the formal process has not begun is because we don't know what the rules are yet; and until we know what the rules are, it doesn't make sense to file.

NPT: But, the Wardy recall will go forward?

PEREZ: Absolutely.

NPT: Do you have other policy difference with the Wardy administration in addition to the elderly/handicapped tax relief issue, Oñate, and the recall process?

PEREZ: In addition, the failure to respect the process of the rule of law. In addition, the perceived corruption in the administration. And a number of other issues that have come up. I mean, we have a very serious difference of view. And, I think that at this point, one of the primary motivators is the fact that the El Paso Times is complicit in censoring opposition to this administration.

I debated Richard Fleager on the bond and charter propositions at an El Paso Rotary Club meeting before the election, and when that newspaper article came out they only quoted Richard Fleager [article]. And that's absurd. And I know for a fact that when the story was originally written, it had a balanced view of both the pro and con. But, the editors at the El Paso Times excised my view point.

When I talked to Don Flores, he tells me - because I told him, "Look Don, you've had two lead editorials in which you've attacked me personally, by name. You have had a number of stories in which you cast dispersions upon me. When do I get equal time?" And his e-mail to me is, "You don't get equal time." And I said, "Well, we understand eachother." He says, "You may, if you want, write a letter to the editor. But, we reserve the right to edit it."

And so, you know, what that essentially does, it reduces me to a situation where I give them a letter and they will only publish what they want me to say - not what I want to say. And even then, they may not even publish the letter at all. That's the absurdity - that anyone who has policy disagreements with this administration cannot get their point of view into the written media, the El Paso Times, which is the only (English) newspaper we have in town.

NPT: Was this part of your motivation for starting elpasometro.com? [website]

PEREZ: Absolutely. That was the reason El Paso Metro was started - it was because we could not get the El Paso Times to do their job. They insist on being a propaganda mouthpiece for the powers that be, instead of reporting the news.

NPT: Will people be able to find out more information about what's going on through El Paso Metro, or will you be covering other issues?

PEREZ: In fact, there are a number of really interesting articles coming up, because what I have chosen to do - in light of the fact that they're using Barragan's testimony at City Hall - is that I have decided to present a full rendition of his testimony. And he had a lot of things to say, above and beyond - I want to make one thing perfectly clear; in the Legislative Review, he made no allegations with respect to the petition. His comment was reduced to: some of these signatures looks suspicious to me. But he did not specifically say that any of the signatures were not original. So, that's got to be really clear.

NPT: Because there had been allegations that some people had signed the petition without knowing what they were signing, or that there was some kind of shady business involved, right?

PEREZ: Well, but you see, that's it - they're using innuendo. But he (Barragan) has made no allegation. He has not made any statement that says this, that, or the other - that would specifically indicate any kind of wrong doing. It's just smoke in order to create a context for which Representative Escobar and his supporters can undo the certification (of the recall petition).

But, Mr. Barragan said other things as well. And those other things are things then - that if this administration feels that the citizens of El Paso need to listen to Mr. Barragan, then I feel compelled ethically to provide a full disclosure of everything that Mr. Barragan has said about this administration.

So, I am issuing a series of seven articles of testimony by Mr. Barragan. The first one is already up.

NPT: Any final thoughts or anything you want to add?

PEREZ: It's very important to understand that no allegations of wrongdoing have been made. It has just been kicking up dust, saying, "Oh, it's suspicious. Oh, we don't know. Oh, it doesn't look right." But, no one has said, "This signature is forged." No one has said, "There's something wrong with it" or "This person doesn't exist" or "This person is dead" or something like that. Nothing. No allegation of that sort has been made. It's all been dust. And it's that dust this City Council is trying to use in order to undo the certification (of the petition).

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